VoteKansas.org

The FBI Deputizes Business
By Matthew Rothschild, March 2008 Issue
Infragard

Today, more than 23,000 representatives of private industry are working quietly with the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does—and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to “shoot to kill” in the event of martial law.
InfraGard is “a child of the FBI,” says Michael Hershman, the chairman of the advisory board of the InfraGard National Members Alliance and CEO of the Fairfax Group, an international consulting firm.

InfraGard started in Cleveland back in 1996, when the private sector there cooperated with the FBI to investigate cyber threats.

“Then the FBI cloned it,” says Phyllis Schneck, chairman of the board of directors of the InfraGard National Members Alliance, and the prime mover behind the growth of InfraGard over the last several years.

InfraGard itself is still an FBI operation, with FBI agents in each state overseeing the local InfraGard chapters. (There are now eighty-six of them.) The alliance is a nonprofit organization of private sector InfraGard members.

“We are the owners, operators, and experts of our critical infrastructure, from the CEO of a large company in agriculture or high finance to the guy who turns the valve at the water utility,” says Schneck, who by day is the vice president of research integration at Secure Computing.

“At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector,” the InfraGard website states. “InfraGard chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories.”

In November 2001, InfraGard had around 1,700 members. As of late January, InfraGard had 23,682 members, according to its website, www.infragard.net, which adds that “350 of our nation’s Fortune 500 have a representative in InfraGard.”

To join, each person must be sponsored by “an existing InfraGard member, chapter, or partner organization.” The FBI then vets the applicant. On the application form, prospective members are asked which aspect of the critical infrastructure their organization deals with. These include: agriculture, banking and finance, the chemical industry, defense, energy, food, information and telecommunications, law enforcement, public health, and transportation.

FBI Director Robert Mueller addressed an InfraGard convention on August 9, 2005. At that time, the group had less than half as many members as it does today. “To date, there are more than 11,000 members of InfraGard,” he said. “From our perspective that amounts to 11,000 contacts . . . and 11,000 partners in our mission to protect America.” He added a little later, “Those of you in the private sector are the first line of defense.”

He urged InfraGard members to contact the FBI if they “note suspicious activity or an unusual event.” And he said they could sic the FBI on “disgruntled employees who will use knowledge gained on the job against their employers.”

In an interview with InfraGard after the conference, which is featured prominently on the InfraGard members’ website, Mueller says: “It’s a great program.”

The ACLU is not so sanguine.

“There is evidence that InfraGard may be closer to a corporate TIPS program, turning private-sector corporations—some of which may be in a position to observe the activities of millions of individual customers—into surrogate eyes and ears for the FBI,” the ACLU warned in its August 2004 report The Surveillance-Industrial Complex: How the American Government Is Conscripting Businesses and Individuals in the Construction of a Surveillance Society.

InfraGard is not readily accessible to the general public. Its communications with the FBI and Homeland Security are beyond the reach of the Freedom of Information Act under the “trade secrets” exemption, its website says. And any conversation with the public or the media is supposed to be carefully rehearsed.

“The interests of InfraGard must be protected whenever presented to non-InfraGard members,” the website states. “During interviews with members of the press, controlling the image of InfraGard being presented can be difficult. Proper preparation for the interview will minimize the risk of embarrassment. . . . The InfraGard leadership and the local FBI representative should review the submitted questions, agree on the predilection of the answers, and identify the appropriate interviewee. . . . Tailor answers to the expected audience. . . . Questions concerning sensitive information should be avoided.”

One of the advantages of InfraGard, according to its leading members, is that the FBI gives them a heads-up on a secure portal about any threatening information related to infrastructure disruption or terrorism.

The InfraGard website advertises this. In its list of benefits of joining InfraGard, it states: “Gain access to an FBI secure communication network complete with VPN encrypted website, webmail, listservs, message boards, and much more.”

InfraGard members receive “almost daily updates” on threats “emanating from both domestic sources and overseas,” Hershman says.

“We get very easy access to secure information that only goes to InfraGard members,” Schneck says. “People are happy to be in the know.”

On November 1, 2001, the FBI had information about a potential threat to the bridges of California. The alert went out to the InfraGard membership. Enron was notified, and so, too, was Barry Davis, who worked for Morgan Stanley. He notified his brother Gray, the governor of California.

“He said his brother talked to him before the FBI,” recalls Steve Maviglio, who was Davis’s press secretary at the time. “And the governor got a lot of grief for releasing the information. In his defense, he said, ‘I was on the phone with my brother, who is an investment banker. And if he knows, why shouldn’t the public know?’ ”

Maviglio still sounds perturbed about this: “You’d think an elected official would be the first to know, not the last.”

In return for being in the know, InfraGard members cooperate with the FBI and Homeland Security. “InfraGard members have contributed to about 100 FBI cases,” Schneck says. “What InfraGard brings you is reach into the regional and local communities. We are a 22,000-member vetted body of subject-matter experts that reaches across seventeen matrixes. All the different stovepipes can connect with InfraGard.”

Schneck is proud of the relationships the InfraGard Members Alliance has built with the FBI. “If you had to call 1-800-FBI, you probably wouldn’t bother,” she says. “But if you knew Joe from a local meeting you had with him over a donut, you might call them. Either to give or to get. We want everyone to have a little black book.”

This black book may come in handy in times of an emergency. “On the back of each membership card,” Schneck says, “we have all the numbers you’d need: for Homeland Security, for the FBI, for the cyber center. And by calling up as an InfraGard member, you will be listened to.” She also says that members would have an easier time obtaining a “special telecommunications card that will enable your call to go through when others will not.”

This special status concerns the ACLU.

“The FBI should not be creating a privileged class of Americans who get special treatment,” says Jay Stanley, public education director of the ACLU’s technology and liberty program. “There’s no ‘business class’ in law enforcement. If there’s information the FBI can share with 22,000 corporate bigwigs, why don’t they just share it with the public? That’s who their real ‘special relationship’ is supposed to be with. Secrecy is not a party favor to be given out to friends. . . . This bears a disturbing resemblance to the FBI’s handing out ‘goodies’ to corporations in return for folding them into its domestic surveillance machinery.”

When the government raises its alert levels, InfraGard is in the loop. For instance, in a press release on February 7, 2003, the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General announced that the national alert level was being raised from yellow to orange. They then listed “additional steps” that agencies were taking to “increase their protective measures.” One of those steps was to “provide alert information to InfraGard program.”

“They’re very much looped into our readiness capability,” says Amy Kudwa, spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security. “We provide speakers, as well as do joint presentations [with the FBI]. We also train alongside them, and they have participated in readiness exercises.”

On May 9, 2007, George Bush issued National Security Presidential Directive 51 entitled “National Continuity Policy.” In it, he instructed the Secretary of Homeland Security to coordinate with “private sector owners and operators of critical infrastructure, as appropriate, in order to provide for the delivery of essential services during an emergency.”

Asked if the InfraGard National Members Alliance was involved with these plans, Schneck said it was “not directly participating at this point.” Hershman, chairman of the group’s advisory board, however, said that it was.

InfraGard members, sometimes hundreds at a time, have been used in “national emergency preparation drills,” Schneck acknowledges.

“In case something happens, everybody is ready,” says Norm Arendt, the head of the Madison, Wisconsin, chapter of InfraGard, and the safety director for the consulting firm Short Elliott Hendrickson, Inc. “There’s been lots of discussions about what happens under an emergency.”

One business owner in the United States tells me that InfraGard members are being advised on how to prepare for a martial law situation—and what their role might be. He showed me his InfraGard card, with his name and e-mail address on the front, along with the InfraGard logo and its slogan, “Partnership for Protection.” On the back of the card were the emergency numbers that Schneck mentioned.

This business owner says he attended a small InfraGard meeting where agents of the FBI and Homeland Security discussed in astonishing detail what InfraGard members may be called upon to do.

“The meeting started off innocuously enough, with the speakers talking about corporate espionage,” he says. “From there, it just progressed. All of a sudden we were knee deep in what was expected of us when martial law is declared. We were expected to share all our resources, but in return we’d be given specific benefits.” These included, he says, the ability to travel in restricted areas and to get people out.
But that’s not all.

“Then they said when—not if—martial law is declared, it was our responsibility to protect our portion of the infrastructure, and if we had to use deadly force to protect it, we couldn’t be prosecuted,” he says.

I was able to confirm that the meeting took place where he said it had, and that the FBI and Homeland Security did make presentations there. One InfraGard member who attended that meeting denies that the subject of lethal force came up. But the whistleblower is 100 percent certain of it. “I have nothing to gain by telling you this, and everything to lose,” he adds. “I’m so nervous about this, and I’m not someone who gets nervous.”

Though Schneck says that FBI and Homeland Security agents do make presentations to InfraGard, she denies that InfraGard members would have any civil patrol or law enforcement functions. “I have never heard of InfraGard members being told to use lethal force anywhere,” Schneck says.

The FBI adamantly denies it, also. “That’s ridiculous,” says Catherine Milhoan, an FBI spokesperson. “If you want to quote a businessperson saying that, knock yourself out. If that’s what you want to print, fine.”

But one other InfraGard member corroborated the whistleblower’s account, and another would not deny it.

Christine Moerke is a business continuity consultant for Alliant Energy in Madison, Wisconsin. She says she’s an InfraGard member, and she confirms that she has attended InfraGard meetings that went into the details about what kind of civil patrol function—including engaging in lethal force—that InfraGard members may be called upon to perform.

“There have been discussions like that, that I’ve heard of and participated in,” she says.

Curt Haugen is CEO of S’Curo Group, a company that does “strategic planning, business continuity planning and disaster recovery, physical and IT security, policy development, internal control, personnel selection, and travel safety,” according to its website. Haugen tells me he is a former FBI agent and that he has been an InfraGard member for many years. He is a huge booster. “It’s the only true organization where there is the public-private partnership,” he says. “It’s all who knows who. You know a face, you trust a face. That’s what makes it work.”

He says InfraGard “absolutely” does emergency preparedness exercises. When I ask about discussions the FBI and Homeland Security have had with InfraGard members about their use of lethal force, he says: “That much I cannot comment on. But as a private citizen, you have the right to use force if you feel threatened.”

“We were assured that if we were forced to kill someone to protect our infrastructure, there would be no repercussions,” the whistleblower says. “It gave me goose bumps. It chilled me to the bone.”

Matthew Rothschild is the editor of The Progressive magazine and the author of "You Have No Rights: Stories of America in an Age of Repression." This article, "The FBI Deputizes Business," is the cover story of the March issue of The Progressive.
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Mon, 03/03/2008 - 11:18pm — Backtoethics (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

23,000...???

They wish...!!!

* reply

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 4:15pm — Goldstein (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

I am amazed that this discussion still continues. I know it is way of topic but I could not help myself.

A note to Bulgarian Girl:

I find your claim that Soviet Communism did a lot of good but had its limits to be hypocritical at best.

1. First of: you could not even dream of traveling abroad or living in a Scandinavian country if Bulgaria was still under communist rule (technically it still is but not formally). I mean of course the rank and file party members and common folks. This “restriction” did not apply to the sons and daughters of the nomenclature. You are only 19; I am much older than you and had the “advantage” to personally experience the “good” of this system, praised by you.
2. Second, before the Soviet occupation communism was not an ideology widely supported by the Bulgarian peoples, as opposed to Yugoslavia or Greece.
3. Communism was imposed on Bulgaria by a foreign power and throughout the existence of the Bulgarian Peoples Republic the country was never sovereign and independent entity.
4. There is a huge difference between Tito’s Yugoslavia and Bulgaria’s case. Tito’s Partisan Movement was widespread and highly supported by the civilian population. That is why Tito did not succumb to Stalin’s pressure and managed to launch an independent course. As a result, later on many Bulgarians envied Yugoslavia’s political and economic system. That said, as a Bulgarian, with a grandfather from Bitola(Macedonia), I am in no way sympathizer of Tito’s political model.
5. The Soviet occupation and the imposition of a foreign political system and ideology had tremendous consequences for the Bulgarian peoples-psychology. This consequences are still present: lack of national identity,lack of self-esteem as a Nation, lack of independence while making decisions, lack of ambition and desire to struggle and fight for a better future.
6. The “Bulgarian” communist leaders were national traitors that served the imperial interests of a foreign power- Stalin’s USSR and were more than eager to betray their own peoples in Macedonia, to act in accordance with Stalin’s plan of Soviietization of the Balkans. This led to the creation of the infamous “Macedonian nation”. By participating in this act the Communists committed the biggest national crime in the history of Bulgaria. It was Georgi Mihailovich Dimitrov, a Macedonian Bulgarian himself, who was willing to scratch of Macedonia from the Bulgarian peoples’ heart, mind and soul forever.
7. Communism did not create an egalitarian society, but a majority of equally poor pariah and small invincible elite. The corrupted and inefficient way of economic distribution led to a supply that never answered the tremendous demand, even for everyday necessities.
8. Communism is in no way less responsible for the environmental catastrophe we are about to face. Chernobyl is only one example, but so is the constant tests of nuclear weapons.

A few words about the comparisons between Europe and USSR:
It is condescending to make comparisons between the Soviet ideology and the ideologues that influenced the progressive movements of the US and Western Europe. Anyone knowledgeable of classical Marxian thought is aware that Socialism according to Marx is evolutional economic stage and comes about only in highly developed capitalist countries. Russia in no way was such.
Lenin led a revolution that became hostile to individual and artistic freedom. He created a rigid ultra-centralized party that suppressed any attempts of straining from the official line. (I suggest you read Rosa Luxemburg’s critic of Lenin’s idea of centralization.) The Kronstadt rebellion that demanded real political and economic freedom was ruthlessly suppressed. Later on Stalin killed and chased away the rest of the prominent Russian intellectuals and artists and imposed the rigid Socialist realism in art and literature, leaving no room for creativity or individual expression.
On the other hand Western European Leftist movements were influenced by such names as Luxemburg, Gramsci, Sartre, Fromm, members of the Frankfurt School, etc. The idea of ultra-centralization is not appealing to the progressive Western movements. No matter how artificial the political system of Western democracy, Western Leftists never considered authoritarianism as an alternative.The movements of the 60s were not inspired by the ideology of Lenin and Stalin, and were not led nor by the working class, neither by the peasants, but by the students.Far cry from the conspiratorial militant organization of Lenin.

Lastly, I found your statement that Bulgaria is a former Soviet republic offensive, but it just goes to show the mindset of Bugarian communist symphatizers.

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Thu, 02/28/2008 - 4:20pm — Bulgarian-Girl RED (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

FU Too,

I am curious about your last statement:

"I am honored to be able to discuss these issues with you, I think your comments are extremely valuable and revealing."

What are you trying to say and why are you saying it? Are you being ironic?

The reason I am asking you this is because you appeared to show no repect and willingness for a respectable dialog since the beginning.

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I don't hate any person or country and I am sorry that our discussion led to this hostile outburst. You must understand that I am a very emotional person and when people show such little respect and understanding for my situation I react short-tempered and angry.

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I repeat myself once again that I am fully aware that the Soviet Union had alot of limits. However, one must not forget that it also had done alot of good. I believe that every movement in history had it's perpous. If the French-revolution hadn't been, we would still be living under the domination of the decadent aristocrats and nobility. The Marxist revolution also had its importance. during the industrial rev."laissez faire" was an exploitive system. Since there was no government interferance, bosses had the power to treat their workers in the most exploitive and abusive manor. People were fed up by being bossed around, and therefore Marx lead the Communist revolution.

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America has not always been such a free and liberal country as it is today. All the progressive movements in your country such as "Social security, anti racism, feminism, sexual freedom and animal welfare are all achieved by people in the past who followed their idealogy. How could any of these things be astablished if all people had your attitude, of calling every social suggestion a "utopian fantasy"?

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I am well aware that Stalin was a terrible person, but so were Hitler, Pinochet and Osama Binladen. Communists are not the only demons in the world. Your extreme hatred against Communism makes you forget that. It were the COMMUNISTS that got rid of the fascism. It is very likely that if fascism would have won over communism, Nazi Germany and its inhumane discrimnative practices would have taken over the world.

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If you think that there is nothing worse than Communism think again. After the collapse of the Soviet Union Bulgaria went from being Communist to Mafioso. If you ask the people in Bulgaria, most of them would agree that their personal situation has worsened. The Mafia is a small minority of filthy rich people who don't give a damn about the rest of the population. They do anything for money.

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It would be outragious for me to suggest that you don't have the right for your opinion. However it is unsensitive of you not to respect MY OWN opinion and experience. If you take my points into acount you will see that the words of Marx have not been all in vain.

Once again, I appolgize for being rude, but you must admit that you have not been all to nice yourself. In a recent commend you stated the following:

"Jennyyyy,
Your statement is ingenious at best and dishonest to the max. A careful review of the previous posts will clearly show that you and your group of PROPAGANDA PIMPS are the ones who started the malicious flame-throwing and name calling."

Why did you have to say this to Jenny after she just wanted to calm down the situation? She did not even want to get involved in the discussion.

In the same commend you also stated

"Chris,
Why should anyone take you serious? You denied being a communist sympathizer and now you admit it. You didn't fool anyone."

Chris never denied that he was a Communist symphatizer. He was trying to have an open and honost discussion with you, but you insulted him. You don't know Chris, he is a very nice and intelligent young boy of only 19 years of age just like myself. If you think he is childish you have this right, but he is almost still a child. You seem to assume that the people you are communicating with are adults.

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Thu, 02/28/2008 - 11:03am — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Red Girl,
Thank you for your very kind and endearing remarks. I think you should know that I am progressive. I find it very interesting that some people who would take the world back to the days of tyranny, oppression, and mass slaughter under communist/socialist rule are confused when they claim that they are Progressive. The very idea of turning the clock backwards toward policies that have failed each time it has been tried would seem to be Regressive, by definition.
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Propaganda is a very appropriate word for statements that defy logic, reason and common sense. For instance, many would find it incredulous that someone, like yourself, would still support communism after admitting to the oppression and brutality that you claim you were subject to.
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Rational is a very important and defining word and process. Your own statements would tend to lend credence to that.
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You stated, "Rationality is not very important in terms of politics at all and neither is FREEDOM. People have always misused too much freedom and they always will."
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The opposite of rational is 'Irrational', defined as that which is not endowed with reason or understanding. Possibly you have not read many articles on this site. If you will notice, most of the responses to these articles are due to the perceived loss of freedom. This very article, which you took off topic, is about the perceived loss of freedom. How could you possibly evaluate any political philosophy without applying a rational and logical thought process? How could you possibly reach the conclusion that freedom is not important to a political ideology or the people who are affected by it? Without freedom you would not be able to come into the homes of Americans and spew your irrational, hate-America rhetoric. I believe you have the right and freedom to do that. People also have the right to respond to your rhetoric. That is how democracy works.
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It is instructive that you reserve the right to voice your opinion, yet you are very quick to demand the voices of those who raise questions about your positions be silenced. You don't seem to have a problem denigrating others who point out the absolute contradictions of your incredulous claims, yet you demand respect from others?
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To follow an ideology without applying a rational and logical thought process would indicate that you consider your ideology a religion, which is based on faith alone.
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I am honored to be able to discuss these issues with you, I think your comments are extremely valuable and revealing.

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Tue, 02/26/2008 - 6:14pm — Bulgaria-Girl RED (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

I want to close off this discussion by giving a final statement. I advize every progressive person who visits this news article not to go into discussion with the person who calls himself F.U. too. He is childish, narrow-minded and has a talent of turning the truth around. He relies only on retorical American propaganda simply because he has not the rationality of forming his opinion in a respectable argument.

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First of all, I am astonished that F.U. too is on this website in the first place. He should leave this website because he is a disgrace for the meaning "progressive". His goal is simply to provoke and stir up the tentions between SOCIALISTS, LIBERALS and AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES.

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You seem to like the word propaganda. A person can always recognize his best qualities and you are definately not an exception. Wouldn't it be an excelent moment for you to start focusing on yourself for a change instead of finger-pointing at other people?

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Another word which you like to use is RATIONALITY but this definition is totally worthless without IDEOLOGY. Nothing works without ideology, and enlightenment, and you will find out one day. Rationality is not very important in terms of politics at all and neither is FREEDOM. People have always misused too much freedom and they always will. Important is MORALITY. People should have the freedom to decide personal matters such as religion, sexual orientation and abortion, but people don't have the right in poluting the environment and exploiting people and animals, simply for their entertainment or profit.

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You are right!!!! I don't attempt to reason like you do. This is called Self-confidence. Any person with a strong character does not need to add up 1 and 1 to express his/ her emotions.

I am now slowly getting fed up with our argument, and I am going to leave you alone to argue with yourself. Lots of fun!!!! I would be a big supporter for your exile of this article.
I support you to leave this article. Who is with me. GET OUT!!! GET OUT!!! GET OUT!!! GET OUT.......

* reply

Tue, 02/26/2008 - 5:10pm — Jesus Jimenez (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Jennyyyy,

Your remarks sound pretty condescending and arrogant to me. You said,

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"As for F.U too, You are ridiculous, to suggest that you know more about Communism than this Bulgarian girl. You Americans, haven't directly experienced the Communism, Facism and powerty unlike we have done in Europe. I advize you to keep yourself busy with something more appropriate for Americans such as milking the cows in a range,,, instead of messing about with serious European History and politics.

If Communism is really so evil as you describe it, then why would this girl have a reason to follow it.

Maybe it isn't clever for you to be on a progressive news article if you don't like socialism
"

I will be the first to admit that I am not nearly as suffisticated as you appear to be and I don't even come close to mastering the English language as you have. But, I am curious about one thing. You stated in an earlier post that you are not a socialist. So may I be ridiculous and ask you, is it cleaver for you to be on a socialist web site? And why are you defending socialist and communist positions if you are not a socialist?

You were asked to clarify some pretty basic questions and you didn't even attempt to answer them. That may pass as intelligence in Londonistan, but in other parts of the world it looks like the typical left-wing approach of cut-and-run when the going gets a little difficult.

You should also be aware that Infragard has announced plans to open branch offices in Londonistan and Amsterdamistan. I have heard rumors that they secretly implant lie detectors in emails that are sent over the internet. When these superimposed, sonicly synchronized lie detectors detect a lie, they are set to explode the hard-drive on the detected computer. Once these detectors go off, a radio frequency is sent to headquarters and a division of the Infragard Swat Team is dispatched with their ray guns and lazer lined libo liquidators, armed with orders to load the offfender on a UFO and ship them to planet Utopia for futher interrogation and water-boarding. Not that you have anything to worry about?

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Tue, 02/26/2008 - 4:40pm — Jack booted Geek (not verified)
Sorry, I just can't help myself.

Brunhilda said:

"I cannot stand Americans and their backward culture. I am delighted by the fact that our brilliant island is located far away so that I don't have to put up with stupid yanks, and their pigeon language which they call English. perhaps pick up an Oxford dictionary if you want to learn to spell English the proper way."

As far as can be ascertained, pigeons do not have a language in any meaningful sense of the word. I think the English word you are looking for is "pidgin". According to the Oxford dictionary, (thanks for the tip. I almost reached for the German dictionary...), pidgin is: "a grammatically simplified form of a language with elements taken from local languages, used for communication between people not sharing a common language".

After vainly trying to make sense of the acres of off-topic diatribe below, maybe switching to pidgin from here on out is a good idea. Or perhaps a pigeon could drop by and translate.

Veering wildly back to the topic:

By now, I suspect the editor/author of this article has learned a great deal more from his geekier aquaintainces and other InfraGard paricipants, and has hopefully come to a clearer understanding of how banal this group actually is.

If so, I am sure that the great tradition of journalistic integrity demonstrated by this magazine over nearly a century will lead him to provide updates and clarifications in an upcoming edition. No one will read it, but honesty is it's own reward.

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Tue, 02/26/2008 - 1:50pm — Jennyyyy from England (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

As far as I recall, I was never calling names to you or to anybody else. Perhaps you should take another look at my command. I clearly stated "We should show respect for eachother." Do you not agree on this?

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By reading your last commend, it seems to me that you don't agree with me. While I was trying to smoothen the situation, you are provoking further tentions. Tututut,,, have you never learned social skills in Kindergarden.

It is interresting how you are constantly pointing the finger at us giving misproven facts withhout even responding to most of our commends. Take a look at all the issues we named. Perhaps you are not quite as suffisticated and intelligent as you think.

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I totally agree with you that adults should be able to reason with eachother. In your last statement your emotions were clearly out of control and every phraze you sung, was an insult. Maybe YOU are the one who is childish and irrational.

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I know one proven fact. You are an amazingly rude and unpleasant person and no one decent will want to have anything to do with you. I don't communicate with people on your level.

If wish you good luck in your life!!!!

* reply

Tue, 02/26/2008 - 12:36pm — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

This article looks like Ian Fleming novel, Infragard members are no secret agents. There is no way the FBI will tell a bunch of geeks armed with cell phones to "Shoot to Kill" in case of a national emergency.

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Tue, 02/26/2008 - 10:05am — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Jennyyyy,
Your statement is ingenious at best and dishonest to the max. A careful review of the previous posts will clearly show that you and your group of propaganda pimps are the ones who started the malicious flame-throwing and name calling. That is the only response that you left-wingers can make when challenged. When you are presented with the facts you have no choice but to start the name-calling, you cannot defend your positions from an intellectual or rational point of view.
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If you wish to engage in a respectful dialog, then you may start by telling those of us who are still able to think for ourselves how and where the policies that you advocate have ever worked. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to have more to offer than just disproved theory to back up your statements and claims. Your approach thus far has been to attempt to silence those with who have no intelligent response to. We see that tactic practiced daily by our totalitarian friends around the world and in the U.S..
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You cannot defend your positions because your positions are dependent on defying history, ignoring reality, and rewriting the laws of the universe and nature. These issues are not left-wing issues as you alluded to. These issues are world issues and affect everyone who has a stake in a peacful, functional planet.
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It is juvenile for you to think that the world is just going to turn a blind eye as you and your cohorts sow chaos, disruptions and upheaval while implementing your intellectually bankrupt, utopian, Marxist view of the world.

Chris,
Why should anyone take you serious? You denied being a communist sympathizer and now you admit it. You didn't fool anyone. We have had years to study the old Soviet style propaganda. We understand your motives, intentions, and goals. This would be a good time to stop playing games with words and the facts.
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As far as the environmental issue goes, no one disagrees that we are experiencing climate change. We have a long history of left-wing organizations producing a study for the sole benefit of establishing or expanding their influence in areas where they could not pass their agenda through the democratic process. There is far too much evidence that the changing climate is related to increased solar activity and a normal fluctuation of climate that has occurred many times over the history of this planet. We are not going to continue being fleeced by those who want to use our confiscated earnings to further enslave and control us.
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Many Americans are eager to have an honest and open debate on these issues. However, we are not interested in playing your adolescent games of double-speak and propaganda that does nothing but diminish you as an intelligent person and as an honest participant. Honesty is where intelligent and respectful debate begins.

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 6:19pm — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Is this article a joke or just a piece of science fiction? I don't think Al Queda could have written a better article of disinformation than this one, if they tried. Does this organization know anything about protecting the nation's infrastructure or do you continually spread conspiracy theories with no basis?

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 6:16pm — chris (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Jennyyyy from England,

I totally agree with you. I believe that you have shown the most character from all of us. we are all willing to be moral and idealistic in our own way and therefore we should learn to respect eachother eventhough it is not always easy. I cannot say that I mannage to do it all the time, but as a true Christian I believe that morality starts by treating people nicely and with respect. I believe that we should all stop our discussion, because it doesn't solve any problems. I myself am a serious Communist and F.U too could never convince me. The same is true for him.

F.U. Too: I only find it a real pitty about the environment issue. I don't need to follow any propaganda to believe in global warming, I just need to follow my personal experience. For three years in a row Holland has not experienced any snow and this is very unusual. In general we have had very few days below freezing for the last two years. the winters 06/07 and 07/08 have been records of the warmest winters ever. Since iceskating is an old tradition and an enjoyable sport in my country try to imagine that many people are very upset about this fact. Try to imagine what it does to our economy. I wish that Americans like you were correct, but I am afraid that you are obviously wrong. This is something you will find out soon.

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 6:08pm — Shaquana Yestobbie (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

WOW!!!
I just read the post by Brunhilda. What I found amazing was this poster's total lack of knowledge of European history. It looks as though Marx's policies have been fully implemented and embedded in that decaying, decadent, and brainwashed region of the world.
Most Americans are beyond caring what a bunch of left-wing Marxists think about America. The fact that Amsterdam contains more social services than all 50 states indicates that the population has become totally dependent upon and subject to the whims of the ruling class. Your freedom is defined and controlled by your ruling class.
It is also fascinating how the Marxists have confused morality with policy decisions. Morality is not subject to the whims of anarchists, Marxists, and Stalinists. Morality is timeless, your fascination with utopian fantasies will end with a big resounding thud, or Bang, as Darwin suggested. G'day mate.

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 5:44pm — Jennyyyy from England (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

OK People!!!

Someone must interfere before this discussion completely goes out of control. All of you have stated your point many times. If you want to be moral then start by showing some repect for eachother. The point of a discussion is to try to convince people by stating your opinion. When people start to insult eachother, the point of having a discussion becomes useless.

F.U Too: Since you are so convinced about being more rational then anybody else, why are you still participating in this discussion? Since this is obviously a left-wing article don't you think that you are wasting your time, or do you have nothing else to do?

Brunhilda: Since you are so moralistic, why do you put yourself down to FU too's level, try to stand above him by not getting upset and taking his personal insults seriously.

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 4:13pm — Brunhilda from Endinbrough (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

WOW!!!!

I am impressed by the concern you show for our country. I wish that you would have shown more interrest in us during WW2.

Nice try!!! Most British people are to clever to fall for your transparent and phoney friendliness.

Now you are relying on one of America's most worn out and retorical statements. "We have constantly bailed you out in the past. How many more times will you expect us to do that for you?" First of all, , it was US that got rid of Nazis. You Americans were taking your summer vacation, swimming in golden coins while London was in ruins and our people were starving to death.

Secondly, we Europeans have come a far way in history and you can be quite certain that we will never repeat the same mistakes we made in the previous century. You had the chance to help us in the past and you failed. I am convident that it won't be necessary in the future.

Thirdly, I would not ask the help of America if my life depended on it. The United Kingdom has always known to solve its problems in the past and it always will be capable doing so in the future.

Perhaps I have made myself clear that the only thing we gained out of our alliance has been the influence of your backward, Neandertal culture. Our biggest problem is that we had to put up with it as long America existed until today. British people like myself and people around the rest of Europe are getting fed up with you Americans. Where do you get your sources of information of America providing freedom in the world. Maybe you are not aware that most people in other countries hate you. They would celebrate to experience your destruction and down-fall.

As far as your anti Socialist point of view is concerned, you are wrong. Perhaps if you really experienced the war as we have done, you would see that the Nazis were the main problem. We never had any problems with the Soviet Union. Infact, if it were not for the Soviets, Adolf Hitler would probably have been victorious and we would now all be living in a facist Europe. Maybe you oversaw the fact that German capitalists and industrialists cleared the path for Hitler and made it posible for him to become leader in the first place, inorder to prevent a Communist revolution--something you would have been keen in doing. Perhaps you don't no a thing about America's puppydog Pinochet president of Chile 1974-1990 who was a terible dictator. He killed people and supressed them as ruthlessly as any Communist dictator has done.

If I were you I would stop preaching about morality, because it is a totally irrelevent topic for you. As I mentioned before, Western Europe is one of the most liberal and moral parts of the world. We repect people for what they are without discriminating them. We offer many posibilies for people that are different: disabled, different religion, gay etc. cities like London or Amsterdam contain more social services than all your 50 States put together.

So think next time before you preach about morality or anything else.

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 11:10am — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Brunhilda, Chris, Red Girl, Jennyyyy:
.
I find your intellectual escape from reality and your incapacity for reasoning to be an alarming wake up call. It is a sad day when adults have lost the ability to reason and simply rely on emotions to guide their choices and decision making.
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I wonder about the intellectual capacity of the leadership of England and the people who elected them. As you stand by and encourage Londonistan to become the next Islamofascist stronghold in the West, I can't help but wonder who you will ask to bail your country out this time. Are you going to ask American soldiers to risk their lives, again, simply because your leaders and citizens lack the capacity to recognize evil intentions, again? At some point, the world must question the lack of judgment and wisdom of European leaders who never seem to learn from history.
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Red Girl stated in a recent post "Long live Communism." Perhaps that went over your head. Standing for freedom and democracy while embracing communism is a contradiction in terms and reality. I believe Chris and Red Girl have laid out their allegiances to totalitarian government far better than I could have. When someone tells you that they are communist sympathizers, it requires a great endeavor into abject denial to claim they didn't say or claim what they claimed.
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The rant against capitalism and the environment was another emotional outburst with no basis in reality. I believe that an informed person could simply look at the two countries, America and Europe, and determine that corporations usually have operations in both countries. How is it that when a European corporation operates in America they are guilty of exploiting the workers and savaging the environment while doing the opposite in Europe? How is that American corporations exploit the workers and savage the environment in American and become part of Enlightened Europe when operating in Europe? Your thesis has no basis in reality of fact. It is a simple-minded, transparent exercise in blame America first. It is also testament to the feeble communist inspired propaganda that informed Americans are getting fed up with.
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As far as your other indictments on America, each country has the right to determine the basic tenets of acceptable behavior that is acceptable to its inhabitants. No country in history has ever survived for long, after it rejected morality, and a sense of right and wrong. You have the right to place your country in peril, just as your soul-mates are doing in America, but your own history of the Roman Empire gives us a glimpse into how that story will end. You have attempted to dismiss the laws of nature; The laws of man; and the laws of God, it hasn't worked out real well, so far. Your endeavor to dismiss historical facts of your nation will bear the same consequences.
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Most Americans are not laughing at you. We weep for your callous disregard for world history; Your own history, and the rejection of reason. You may claim enlightenment, if you wish. Others have a different word for it.

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Mon, 02/25/2008 - 9:20am — truth seeker (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Do you want the truth or the lies? The most closed minded people I have encountered are the global warming advocates who blindly follow the most publicized information. They are to lazy to dig for the truth.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

http://www.livescience.com/environment/071213-greenland-magma.html

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Sat, 02/23/2008 - 1:44pm — Brunhilda from Edinbrough (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

I cannot stand Americans and their backward culture. I am delighted by the fact that our brilliant island is located far away so that I don't have to put up with stupid yanks, and their pigeon language which they call English. perhaps pick up an Oxford dictionary if you want to learn to spell English the proper way.

Another characteristic what I contempt about you Americans is your false and pathetic sentimentality. Many people overhere in Great Britain entertain themselves by making laughing at you. Infact, we laugh so much at you that you should be able to hear it all the way to the West coast, if you listened carefully.

Since Americans cannot be taken seriously in anything, why and how come should they be taken seriously in politics. I am not a Socialist, but I am no friend of American politics either. Our leaders atleast have the competence and intelligence to lead a country. Even the conservative politicians take interrest into majour concerning issues such as Global Warming.

F.U. too is a typical example for an American. Your limited brain capacity, makes you see the world black and white. A person is either a capitalist or a communist.

If you picked up any information what the Bulgarian girl stated, you would know that she is not a Communist. She stands for freedom and democracy, she is only socialy progressive in her way of thinking.

Americans like you don't stand for democracy and freedom. I have friends for instance who claim that lesbians are not allowed to adopt children in your country. This is pure discrimination!!!

ALL women and girls have the right to experiece motherhood including lesbians.

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Sat, 02/23/2008 - 9:10am — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Here's the InfraGard web site URL: http://www.infragard.net/ . See what they have to say about themselves.

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Sat, 02/23/2008 - 6:13am — Jennyyyy from England (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

This little discussion between Chris, the Bulgarian girl and FU too is not going to convince anyone. You all made your point.

First of all I applaud the Bulgarian girl for her ability of communicating in a language which she is not familiar with. I am sure that it must be difficult for you to do. I could not imagine mastering the Bulgarian language in this manor. I am very impressed, in the convincing way how you speak about your personal life and your situation. I am not a Socialist, but I find you very charismatic and convincing.

My advice to you is to quite arguing with FU too. Americans like him are much to caught up in their narrow minded prejudism to learn anything from the rest of the world.

As for F.U too, You are rediculous, to suggest that you know more about Communism than this Bulgarian girl. You Americans, haven't directly experienced the Communism, Facism and powerty unlike we have done in Europe. I advize you to keep yourself busy with something more appropriate for Americans such as milking the cows in a range,,, instead of messing about with serious European History and politics.

If Communism is really so evil as you describe it, then why would this girl have a reason to follow it.

Maybe it isn't clever for you to be on a progressive news article if you don't like socialism

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Sat, 02/23/2008 - 3:36am — Bulgaria-Girl RED (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Your American Paradise, exploits workers, and denies people health care,,, which should be available for everyone.

Also, America the Beautiful has many Hypocritical Christian fundamentalistic maniacts who discriminate other people who they consider to be different because of their Upbringing, color, believe and sexual orientation.

Do you have any explaination for this in terms of freedom??????

Also, I find it rather starteling that you speak constantly about the Evil Communism and not once you mention facism. Are you suggesting that facism was a better system???

If you look at our previous commends you might find that we actually don't want to go back to the old system of Communism. We believe that the new system of Socialism which can be found in Northern Europe is the optimal solution. Overhere we never discriminate people who are different, and we are much more advanced in animal welfare.

Your American loonatic vills however remind me of the Darkages, and now we are speaking of much earlier times than Communist Russia.

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Sat, 02/23/2008 - 2:42am — chris (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

You can save yourself the effort in giving me the facts how many people died under Communism.
I konw it.

In your last commend you still havent found arguments for most of my points against capitalism. The fact is that America is poluter no. 1 of CO2

Are you willing to deny this fact????

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Fri, 02/22/2008 - 6:55pm — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

Chris,

You are correct, I do have an extremely prejudiced view on communism. I think it is despicable that over 60 million people have been killed, simply for the purpose of allowing one individual and a group of elite to oppress, enslave, and rule the masses.
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The Bulgarian girl validated the point that I made about communist oppression. Does the fact that she finds the transition from oppression to freedom a little awkward change the facts of the oppressive and brutal nature of communism? What is your point?
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I am afraid you are the one who does not understand freedom. Relying on a government bureaucrat to dictate the success or failure of the masses is not freedom. Relying on a government bearcat to meet your most basic needs is not freedom. If you fear being self-reliant, the communist or socialist model probably is the best solution for you. But, you do not have the right to impose your helplessness on others.
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Those wonderful communist paradises such as North Korea, Communist China, and Russia are all heavy polluters, where do you get your facts?
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Your beloved communist paradises try to keep people in the country, the people in America have the opposite problem. People from the communist paradise of Cuba and other Central American communist paradises risk their lives just so they can come to America and be exploited by the filthy American Pig capitalist. The neighbors to the south, living in the wonderful socialist paradise of Mexico, break the U.S. laws on a daily basis, just so they can come to America and be abused and exploited by the filthy American capitalist pig.
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The rest of your comments are just utopian snake-oil designed for the simple purpose of transferring wealth from the producers to the panhandlers of the world.

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Thu, 02/21/2008 - 11:58am — Yet Another Infragard Member (not verified)
Its True - But only allowed to shoot Martians

The FBI only gives us light sabers and guns with lazer beams. We can only shoot things from outer space and UFOs. It was designed to "shoot to kill" to save all earthlings from outer space attacks. We are in charge of protecting all of Earth. I feel honored to be part of this team.

This magazine is about as truthful as the National Enquirer. Their sources are highly medicated and live in rooms with padded walls.

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Thu, 02/21/2008 - 11:01am — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

As a member of Infragard for many years (and as a progressive liberally minded person) I find this article to be on par with a grocery store "alien baby" magazine article. As many have pointed out:
1.) The program is a valuable interconnect between those that run the majority of US infrastructure (private industry and public employees such as myself) and the government (which like it or not we kind of elected )
2.) The program is a nice two way street for us to be able to interact with an entity that is huge (US law enforcement) and is often unclear how to approach (do you call 1-800-Hacker?). We have had wonderful success with the program and all of the member on my staff feel that it has more value than the vast majority of public-private groups we've participated in in the past. I can say that if we ever have a questions about how to handle something we call our local rep (who is simply a nice lady who works hard) and she always provides us with good answers in a timely manner.
3.) Whoever you interviewed is either not a member or is an individual with severe delusions of grandeur. I have to say that if he or she was on my staff we'd be having a very stern talk today about what rights are theirs an a citizen and what rights they have as an employee. I think they have watched WAY too many movies.
4.) If every time the government reaches out to a public/private sector to work with them (which is kinda what they are for no?) someone rants about conspiracy we are all going to be in a bad place (and no I'm not siting Bush administration FUD here). I know for a fact that we have helped work with law enforcement a number of times, via contacts in Infragard that have made the citizens of the US a little safer from computer criminals (almost always overseas in our case).
/n
What makes me the most angry about this is that I identify myself as a progressive liberal and you have given me and every other like minded person a bad name. Think about the wonderful ammo you have provided to the Rush Limbaughs of the world by writing such an uninformed ridiculous article based on the blatherings of an inflated source. I expect MUCH better out of your organization and have to say that I will not be reading your articles any longer and this one has put your entire body of work right up there with nutso bloggers in my book.

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Tue, 02/19/2008 - 4:27pm — chris (not verified)
Re: The FBI Deputizes Business

to FU too:

I believe that you have an awfully prejudiced view on the history of Communism. Personally I think that it is arrogant to suggest that you know more about this issue, then a girl from Bulgaria who probably had more personal experience in one year than you did in your whole life.

Do you think that we don't believe in freedom? Perhaps you cannot imagine how someone could ever voluntarily choose the socialist way of living. In Holland, the country where I live, you would be surprized how many people especially young people join Socialist movements. Don't you consider it to be a bit arrogant of yourself to suggest that we all don't know what we are doing. It is a very arrogant but typical approach of Americans to think that their country is the only free and democratic country in the world. Holland has and always had responsible people, that are capable of making responsible dicisions without the help of arrogant Americans. If we would not be capable of that our country would be part of the Northsea as it once was and as it once will be in the future thanks to America's uncooperative attitude in fighting Global warming. Personally I am glad that there lies a big ocean that seperates the two continents from eachother so that I don't have to put up with more American influence as I am doing already.

As for F.U too, I believe that you don't understand the meaning of freedom. Holland is actually one of the most liberal and free countries in the world. We respect people for what they are and never discriminate them because of their upbringing, religion, race, gender or sexual orientation. We are one of the few nations in the world that understand that animals have feelings too and deserve to be treated with respect.

I suggest that you come to visit a socialist gathering in Holland once and perhaps you might be surprized

Capitalism is the one and only cause of all our current problems which I can name.

Worker exploitation

animal exploitation through intensive farming.

exploitation of the consumer who buys unhealthy
food

Occupation of large cooperations and firms so that small family businesses have no chance to compete in the market. How many small farms, shops and restaurants still exist in America?

Capitalism polutes the environment and refuses to do the minimal effort to cut CO2 emmitions.

Socialism on the otherhand does all it can to corect and fight against these problems.

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Tue, 02/19/2008 - 11:41am — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

I am an InfraGard member and just wanted to say that you missed some key points. InfraGard is an organization trying to infiltrate the Girl Scouts and expose them for what they really are. They obviously use their cookie program to cover up their distribution system for arming terrorist around the U.S. And the Boy Scouts are setting up terrorist camps for teenagers and spying on the ACLU. Get real people. InfraGard is just an organization to assist the business sector in communicating criminal activity to the authorities and vice versa. The member who said he had a “license to kill” is laughing at your gullibility and your lack of journalistic integrity. By the way, my name’s Bond, James Bond.

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Tue, 02/19/2008 - 11:35am — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

It is rather startling that Red Girl, in one breath, acknowledges the problems with communism and then attempts to validate and embrace it in the next breath. This is the very problem that affects all who are infected with the myopic view of utopian thinking. The communist system is what it is. There has never been a communist model where the individual had rights or power and there never will be such a system. The power is always concentrated in the hands of the elite. It is the ruling elite who enjoy the privileges and rights of the state.
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The capitalist system has it's defects also. When the socialists implemented the Central Bank and the Tax Code in America, the capitalist quickly discovered that they could buy politicians and buy influence to change the tax code with exceptions and tax breaks to gain marketing advantages over their competition. The capitalist system only works when there are no artificial barriers to competition. Yet, we see the socialists attempting to regulate every single aspect of an individual's daily life and choices.
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This concentration of power by the international corporations did not happen on a vacuum. It only occurred because you, the voter, continue to re-elect those politicians who are for sale, simply because they offered you something that they called free. This exercise in paternalism is slowly changing the balance of power from the governed to the government. As a rational, free-thinking body, how can you casually dismiss the historical records of communist oppression and failure in every single instance where it has been implemented?
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Those of you who wring your hands and gnashing your teeth over the loss of freedom are the very ones who are urging the government to take over more of your decision making on a daily basis. Your are encouraging your elected officials to take over more of your economic freedom by insisting that they decide the winners and losers of business and carve out even more special advantages and privileges that are purchased by the elite, usually under the pretense of helping the disadvantaged. There is a major disconnect from reality and a certain level of dysfunctional thinking when a number of sovereign individuals demand that a few unknown individuals run the lives of those persons competent to run their own lives.
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The Canadian health care system is failing because there is an exodus of qualified medical practitioners who simply can no longer justify the government intrusion and limitations into their practice. There is always cause and effect with every decision made. The utopian model will never work until someone figures out how to displace the Law of Unintended Consequences. There is no free lunch; not in Canada; Not in America; and not in Europe..

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Tue, 02/19/2008 - 10:47am — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

Infragard Member Comments here:
I have been with Infragard since shortly after it started. Your sources are incorrect in many ways.
Members are to use data received to protect our computer networks. Most of the reports I have received are simply organized world wide "public" data in a format for computer people to read and be aware of. Sometimes, we can attend various disaster planning sessions that emergency personell go to, but this is not required. There are: No special legal rights. No exepemtions from any laws. Our cards are simply proof we have been background checked and are members. It would not be wise to hold public meetings discussing what computer security holes need to be plugged. Technology has advanced faster than the security measures and Infragard is one way of getting a VAST amount of input into things that might be issues and ways to resolve them. As for what may have been said vs what your sources stated. Well send 100 people to 1 meeting and you will get 100 different summaries. "IF" they discussed the topic of martial law, then local use of force laws may have been mentioned. But metioning your civil rights in a emergency situation is not a crime, and it was the rights OF THE PEOPLE (and not any specific group) that was mentioned. As a member for the ACLU I will sugguest we get simply have one of the paid computer staff join Infragard and stop "guessing". A blind man cannot tell you the color of an elephant. In the future find sources that are not blind. While I personally disagree with the patriot act(s) and want them gone, I see nothing scary about Infragard. You would serve everyone much better by fighting laws that reduce our freedoms.

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Mon, 02/18/2008 - 4:32pm — Anonymous (not verified)
Another Infragard Member here...

Another Infragard member here, just to confirm what every other person on this message board is saying - that the author is clearly lacking in any journalistic responsibility. Shoot to kill? Most of the tech nerds in Infragard don't even know how to use a gun. It's laughable. What we do get is a great opportunity eat some mediocre food and drink law enforcement coffee (which blows hard) on occasion. Once in a while, we'll have the opportunity to chat it up with some of the local badges and offer some technical advice or something. That's about it for most folks. It sounds like you got some Best Buy cashier who somehow managed to get sponsored. Those Best Buy employees talk like real badasses. Think about your sources next time, and try verifying their outrageous claims before you make yourself look like an ass.

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Mon, 02/18/2008 - 4:12pm — Snapple (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

The Infragard has responded to your propaganda here. They called it patently false and pointed out that you don't even identify where the claimed small meeting occurred.

http://www.infragard.net/press/2008/progressive_article_response_v2.pdf

No intelligent American would believe your crude propaganda.

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Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:34pm — Daniel Johnson (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

To the right winger who started with old "medicare waiting lists" line. I'm in Canada, and the only reason for problems in our medical system is that doctors and hospital administrators are sabotaging our system because they want the right to overcharge desperate people like they do in the U.S.
Many countries have elected socialist governments, then the US funds right wing terrorist groups to overthrow them. Our media then pretend that the terrorists have legitimate grievences, the same way those attacking America do, when in fact they are just rich people who, like all rich people, hate justice.

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Fri, 02/15/2008 - 8:44pm — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

I have only read a couple pages of the posts and have no idea what some of you are talking about. I am certain that most of you don't know what you are talking about either in regard to Infragard. I am an Infragard member and a Computer Security/Computer Forensics professional that works in the private sector that obtains great value from this organization. I am one of the evil people that protect the most valuable asset that each of you have, information stored in computer systems. Unless laptops, Blackberrys, and pagers are now lethal weapons, I assure you that you really don't have much to worry about. The goal for the chapter that I am a part of is primarily to protect to information and services controlled by information technology that each and everyone of you rely on. Simple things that we all hold near and dear like healthcare records, financial information, infrastructure services, and personal privacy from digital attacks. Much of the information that "elected officials" don't have access to is published daily on computer security websites. The "super secret" password to accesss this information is your web browser. For those of you that greatly oppose, despise, and choose to speak out against this organization, I applaud and respect your excercise of the 1st Amendment. However, please do two things before those with conventional wisdom will spend the time to read your uninformed rants about something you obviously know nothing about:
1. Attend an Infragard meeting (The majority of them are open and they have free coffee and snacks)
2. Thank someone from the FBI, CIA, and Military for your right to exercise your 1st Amendnment right

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Fri, 02/15/2008 - 6:11pm — Bulgarian-Girl RED (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

Note on the article of Goldstein:

I am impressed by the knowledge and understanding you express. You are not a person that sees only benifits in Communism but who also recognizes the problems and the limitations. When I objectively compare the two articles between you and F.U too I can tell a differance. You took the time and the initiative to colect accurate information on the Stalinist movement in Russia. Yet you stay firm to your individual opinion, without blindly following American propaganda of irrationality, unjust hatred and prejudism.

Ofcourse I am aware that the way Communism was practiced had problems. Since I am from Bulgaria
( a former country of the Soviet Union) I think that I have more direct experience with these problems then any of you American "Know it alls".

We were opressed, pushed around and totally dominated by the State. Since the fall of the Curtain, we have gained the freedom we wanted.

SO WHAT!!! what has this freedom brought us? Sure, this system benefits a few people, including myself. But these people, are regarded as the winners of the society. The majority of the population is living under powerty and conditions which you cannot emagine. The powerty has increased dramatically since the Curtain fall, and the prices of essential things like FOOD has doubled. As a result to this, many people are starving. Do you think that it is nice to say "who cares,,, I have a nice life so why should I care about my neighbours"

This way of thinking is very unsocial aswell as un Christian but it is the slogan of capitalism. I am proud of myself that I don't have the arogance to think in this way.

Another point on F.U too

You mentioned Health Care. Sure, capitalism provides great and advanced healthcare. Perhaps you are a person who had the luck to be born in a rich and well-off family. What would you do if you did not have this priviledge??? YOU WOULD BE LEFT TO DIE LIKE A STRAYDOG, that's what, as many people in your country. Is this your interpretation of freedom and human fairness and liberty.

The problems you mentioned about Communism is that dictators such as Stalin have missused it inorder to gain personal power. The way Communism was practiced was perhaps not the best system, but like I mentioned, it was much better then what followed afterwards. One day you people will see that Communism is the only fair and just system in the world. Yes, we had our problems in history, which we are presently making up for within the socialist movements in socialy developed European countries such as The Netherlands or Sweden.

As for F.U too, you are familiar with your personal situation without placing yourself into other people. I don't care about your opinion, and I would not waste any breath trying to convince you, but I repeat that it is not smart for a person to have such strong opinions on something which he clearly knows nothing about.

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 4:09pm — Jolene New (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

GH,
You cannot easily kill the beast of totalitarian government, but you can put an out-of-control corporation out of business by not buying their product. You can look at the current status of the former Big 3 auto producers to verify that the consumer is totally in charge of a corporation's future.
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You presented a very interesting rant but, I didn't see any solutions offered. Anger is a state of being, not a solution.
.
Zotzabyte,
Have you ever seen or ridden in an UFO? There is a cure for paranoid schizophrenia. Seek immediate medical attention.

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 1:55pm — GH (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

The totalitarian type communist state, which big segment of the world's population (including me) had the misfortune to experience, should not be considered much different from the corporate totalitarianism that is developing in its final stage of extremity today. In fact the form of economic control that existed behind the so called Iron Curtain was somewhat similar to the Western type state capitalism realized through the Keynesian model.(Of course, Keynesianism came about only as a measure to save the capitalist system from collapsing.)So, in that sense the goals and their results in both systems are hard to differentiate. The exploitation of human and natural resources of the capitalist system continued in both systems. Both systems were involved in a fierce economic, military and political competition. The results of this competition were environmental catastrophe, transformation of continents into war zones, imposing of either left or right-wing dictatorships all over the world. Overall, during the so called Cold War, (in many parts of the world it was rather hot) the economic folly originating from capitalism continued with all its disastrous social, psychological, cultural, environmental, etc. consequences. The actors were different-in one case corporate big business, in the other state oligarchy- but the goals were the same. All of the actors came from the same ideological upbringing and all of them held the notion of freedom of the individual in contempt. The only major difference was the degree of repression. In the communist bloc repression was omnipotent and omnipresent, instituted by an ultra- centralized apparatus, through Gestapo-like repressive structures. Individual freedom was crushed, the individual was not only physically, but psychologically destroyed. Even though, incentives such as free education and healthcare were provided, communism managed to successfully eradicate the spirit of freedom- the fundamental aspect of a human being. On the other hand the crisis of 1930s made capitalism vulnerable. FDR’s reforms were an attempt to save face. The corporate grip over the individual was loosened. Organized labor in the US became powerful as never before in history. The middle class increased tremendously. In the face of the young, educated middle class, the welfare capitalist state created its own Frankenstein. Once given the chance these people became aware of the system’s inhumane nature. So, they rose to destroy it. But unfortunately they were unable to free themselves from the shackles of their own ideological upbringing. Soon the strife for political change transformed into the aimless, fashionable form of rebellion of the hippies, satisfying their own egoism. Threatened by the progressive movements the system unleashed its own repressive apparatus, but was unable to implement the centralized dictatorship of the communist states from within. However, it successfully managed to overcome the big or moderate threats, mainly through insidious political assassinations- JFK, Malcolm X, M.L. King, R. Kennedy, the destruction of the Black Panthers. Nowadays one of the Evil Empires is gone. The other one remained to reign supreme. And in the last two decades we can clearly see how the “winner” is learning from the “looser”. During the Cold War the US was shy on exercising total repression from within. The existence of enough bread and entertainment for the majority was making this unnecessary. But the realities of capitalism’s current stage are substantially different. Reganomics and Thatcherism aggrandized the power of Big Business to a degree comparable only to the hyper-centralized control of the communist party. The end result of the corporate greed: unprecedented gap between rich and poor, not only in the periphery, but also in the core of the Capitalist Empire; imminent ecological catastrophe with grave demographic and political consequences. Complacency can not be guaranteed anymore. Bread is becoming scarce, the opposition, coming through the internet, counterbalances the moronic effect of corporate entertainment. Black sheep will increase in the herd. That is why the new rule of the Capitalist Empire will be a type of corporate totalitarianism, not much different from the one of the communist party. And we are already experiencing its early stages. Just look at the slogans in the subways: ”If you see something say something”, reminds me of the good, old days of Stalinism. Let me conclude with a quote from one of the most perspicacious thinkers of the last century: "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever." George Orwell

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 1:47pm — Goldstein (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

to Chris and Bulgarian Girl:

The totalitarian type communist state, which big segment of the world's population (including me) had the misfortune to experience, should not be considered much different from the corporate totalitarianism that is developing in its final stage of extremity today. In fact the form of economic control that existed behind the so called Iron Curtain was somewhat similar to the Western type state capitalism realized through the Keynesian model.(Of course, Keynesianism came about only as a measure to save the capitalist system from collapsing.)So, in that sense the goals and their results in both systems are hard to differentiate. The exploitation of human and natural resources of the capitalist system continued in both systems. Both systems were involved in a fierce economic, military and political competition. The results of this competition were environmental catastrophe, transformation of continents into war zones, imposing of either left or right-wing dictatorships all over the world. Overall, during the so called Cold War, (in many parts of the world it was rather hot) the economic folly originating from capitalism continued with all its disastrous social, psychological, cultural, environmental, etc. consequences. The actors were different-in one case corporate big business, in the other state oligarchy- but the goals were the same. All of the actors came from the same ideological upbringing and all of them held the notion of freedom of the individual in contempt. The only major difference was the degree of repression. In the communist bloc repression was omnipotent and omnipresent, instituted by an ultra- centralized apparatus, through Gestapo-like repressive structures. Individual freedom was crushed, the individual was not only physically, but psychologically destroyed. Even though, incentives such as free education and healthcare were provided, communism managed to successfully eradicate the spirit of freedom- the fundamental aspect of a human being. On the other hand the crisis of 1930s made capitalism vulnerable. FDR’s reforms were an attempt to save face. The corporate grip over the individual was loosened. Organized labor in the US became powerful as never before in history. The middle class increased tremendously. In the face of the young, educated middle class, the welfare capitalist state created its own Frankenstein. Once given the chance these people became aware of the system’s inhumane nature. So, they rose to destroy it. But unfortunately they were unable to free themselves from the shackles of their own ideological upbringing. Soon the strife for political change transformed into the aimless, fashionable form of rebellion of the hippies, satisfying their own egoism. Threatened by the progressive movements the system unleashed its own repressive apparatus, but was unable to implement the centralized dictatorship of the communist states from within. However, it successfully managed to overcome the big or moderate threats, mainly through insidious political assassinations- JFK, Malcolm X, M.L. King, R. Kennedy, the destruction of the Black Panthers. Nowadays one of the Evil Empires is gone. The other one remained to reign supreme. And in the last two decades we can clearly see how the “winner” is learning from the “looser”. During the Cold War the US was shy on exercising total repression from within. The existence of enough bread and entertainment for the majority was making this unnecessary. But the realities of capitalism’s current stage are substantially different. Reganomics and Thatcherism aggrandized the power of Big Business to a degree comparable only to the hyper-centralized control of the communist party. The end result of the corporate greed: unprecedented gap between rich and poor, not only in the periphery, but also in the core of the Capitalist Empire; imminent ecological catastrophe with grave demographic and political consequences. Complacency can not be guaranteed anymore. Bread is becoming scarce, the opposition, coming through the internet, counterbalances the moronic effect of corporate entertainment. Black sheep will increase in the herd. That is why the new rule of the Capitalist Empire will be a type of corporate totalitarianism, not much different from the one of the communist party. And we are already experiencing its early stages. Just look at the slogans in the subways: ”If you see something say something”, reminds me of the good, old days of Stalinism. Let me conclude with a quote from one of the most perspicacious thinkers of the last century: "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever." George Orwell

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 1:42pm — Goldstein (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

I would like to know why my comment was not posted?

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 1:27pm — Goldstein (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

to Chris and the Bulgarian girl:

The totalitarian type communist state, which big segment of the world's population (including me) had the misfortune to experience, should not be considered much different from the corporate totalitarianism that is developing in its final stage of extremity today. In fact the form of economic control that existed behind the so called Iron Curtain was somewhat similar to the Western type state capitalism realized through the Keynesian model.(Of course, Keynesianism came about only as a measure to save the capitalist system from collapsing.)So, in that sense the goals and their results in both systems are hard to differentiate. The exploitation of human and natural resources of the capitalist system continued in both systems. Both systems were involved in a fierce economic, military and political competition. The results of this competition were environmental catastrophe, transformation of continents into war zones, imposing of either left or right-wing dictatorships all over the world. During the so called Cold War, (in many parts of the world it was rather hot) the economic folly originating from capitalism continued with all its disastrous social, psychological, cultural, environmental, etc. consequences. The actors were different-in one case corporate big business, in the other state oligarchy- but the goals were the same. All of the actors came from the same ideological upbringing and all of them held the notion of freedom of the individual in contempt. The only major difference was the degree of repression. In the communist bloc repression was omnipotent and omnipresent, instituted by an ultra- centralized apparatus, through Gestapo-like repressive structures. Individual freedom was crushed, the individual was not only physically, but psychologically destroyed. Even though, incentives such as free education and healthcare were provided, communism managed to successfully eradicate the spirit of freedom- the fundamental aspect of a human being. On the other hand the crisis of 1930s made capitalism vulnerable. FDR’s reforms were an attempt to save face. The corporate grip over the individual was loosened. Organized labor in the US became powerful as never before in history. The middle class increased tremendously. In the face of the young, educated middle class, the welfare capitalist state created its own Frankenstein. Once given the chance these people became aware of the system’s inhumane nature. So, they rose to destroy it. But unfortunately they were unable to free themselves from the shackles of their own ideological upbringing. Soon the strife for political change transformed into the aimless, fashionable form of rebellion of the hippies, satisfying their own egoism. Threatened by the progressive movements the system unleashed its own repressive apparatus, but was unable to implement the centralized dictatorship of the communist states from within. However, it successfully managed to overcome the big or moderate threats, mainly through insidious political assassinations- JFK, Malcolm X, M.L. King, R. Kennedy, the destruction of the Black Panthers. Nowadays one of the Evil Empires is gone. The other one remained to reign supreme. And in the last two decades we can clearly see how the “winner” is learning from the “looser”. During the Cold War the US was shy on exercising total repression from within. The existence of enough bread and entertainment for the majority was making this unnecessary. But the realities of capitalism’s current stage are substantially different. Reganomics and Thatcherism aggrandized the power of Big Business to a degree comparable only to the hyper-centralized control of the communist party. The end result of the corporate greed: unprecedented gap between rich and poor, not only in the periphery, but also in the core of the Capitalist Empire; imminent ecological catastrophe with grave demographic and political consequences. Complacency can not be guaranteed anymore. Bread is becoming scarce, the opposition, coming through the internet, counterbalances the moronic effect of corporate entertainment. Black sheep will increase in the herd. That is why the new rule of the Capitalist Empire will be a type of corporate totalitarianism, not much different from the one of the communist party. And we are already experiencing its early stages. Just look at the slogans in the subways: ”If you see something say something”, reminds me of the good, old days of Stalinism. Let me conclude with a quote from one of the most perspicacious thinkers of the last century: "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever." George Orwell

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 1:27pm — zotzabyte at yahoo dot com (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

This is textbook fascism.

But what else could have been expected from the Bushitler administration and the lockstepping Repugnican puppets? After all, Bush's granddaddy (Prescott) financed Hitler in WWII... money that went to buy bombs and bullets to kill American servicemen. He was indicted under the Trading With The Enemies Act, but that doesn't bring back the dead servicemen. Bush's dad (aka "Poppy" - ever wonder how he got that nickname?? --think CIA, Afghanistan) once said "If they (the public) knew what we've done, they'd take us out and lynch us".

And then there's Marvin... the bandit that got the taxpayers to bail out his Silverado Savings and Loan to the tune of billions of dollars while he stashed many millions for himself in offshore banks. And guess what Marvin's job was on 9-11?

He was head of security for the entire World trade Center complex. Kinda makes you wonder about the power outages and workmen going in and out of the WTC towers the weekend before 9-11, doesn't it?

And how come those who made money off the dumping of United and AA stock have never been looked for? And then there's WTC tower #7, which came down in such a perfect fall that anyone who thinks it wasn't imploded with explosives must surely be lacking their sanity. Besides, videos clearly show the explosives going off anyway.

The bottom line is that the Bush regime will go down in history as on par with that of Adolph Hitler's. Hitler killed about 6 million, Bush has murdered about 1 million. Germany created jobs and improved their infrastructure during Hitler, America lost jobs, reached $9 TRILLION in debt, and sat atop a weakening infrastructure during Bush. That is essentially the only difference. The are both fanatical fascists and bloodthirsty murderers though. I give Hitler considerably higher marks than Bush though when it comes to caring about his own countrymen.

Along with Dictator Bush, all Repugnicans and everyone who was stupid enough to vote for Bushit in either the 2000 or 2004 elections are responsible for the damage wrought to America under the Bushitler regime. The final tally of the damage won't be known for years though, possibly decades when you consider his asinine, horrendous, radical-reich wing whacko judges he's put on federal benches.

And to a degree, Congressional Democrats need to be held responsible too for not prosecuting every single last crook in the criminal Bush regime. Bush makes Nixon look like Mother Teresa. Yet the Congressional Dems have done very little in the way of investigating, impeaching, indicting, and imprisoning these evil evil evil crooks. Why all of them aren't serving life sentences at Guantanamo is beyond me...

Furthermore, the Bushitler regime was masterful at limiting what could be shown on TV about 9-11 and orchestrating the cover story for it. The problem with it though, is that anyone who looks into what really happened can see that Bush & Cheney were behind 9-11. The damage to our democracy that's been done as a result of what they were able to get by with on 9-11, and thereafter creating programs such as Infragard, is exactly what they had in mind when they orchestrated it, and is something that will probably be with us forever, even if 9-11 can be proven to have been caused directly by Bushitler/Cheney.

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 12:50pm — Goldstein (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

to Chris and the Bulgarian girl

The totalitarian type communist state, which big segment of the world's population (including me) had the misfortune to experience, should not be considered much different from the corporate totalitarianism that is developing in its final stage of extremity today. In fact the form of economic control that existed behind the so called Iron Curtain was somewhat similar to the Western type state capitalism realized through the Keynesian model.(Of course, Keynesianism came about only as a measure to safe the capitalist system from collapsing.)So, in that sense the goals and their results in both systems are hard to differentiate. The exploitation of human and natural resources of the capitalist system continued in both systems. Both systems were involved in a fierce economic, military and political competition. The results of this competition were environmental catastrophe, transformation of continents into war zones, imposing of either left or right-wing dictatorships all over the world. During the so called Cold War, (in many parts of the world it was rather hot) the economic folly originating from capitalism continued with all its disastrous social, psychological, cultural, environmental, etc. consequences. The actors were different-in one case corporate big business, in the other state oligarchy- but the goals were the same. All of the actors came from the same ideological upbringing and all of them held the notion of freedom of the individual in total contempt. The only major difference was the degree of repression. In the communist bloc repression was omnipotent and omnipresent instituted by an ultra- centralized apparatus, through Gestapo-like repressive structures. Individual freedom was crushed, the individual was not only physically, but psychologically destroyed. Even though, incentives such as free education and healthcare were provided, communism managed to successfully eradicate the spirit of freedom- the fundamental aspect of a human being. On the other hand the crisis of 1930s made capitalism vulnerable. FDR’s reforms were an attempt to save face. The corporate grip over the individual was loosened. Organized labor in the US became powerful as never before in history. The middle class increased tremendously. The welfare capitalist state created, in the face of the young, educated middle class, its own Frankenstein. Once given the chance these people became aware of the system’s inhumane nature. So, they rose to destroy it. But unfortunately they were unable to free themselves from the shackles of their own ideological upbringing. Soon the strife for political change transformed into the aimless, fashionable form of rebellion of the hippies, satisfying their own egoism. Threatened by the progressive movements the system unleashed its own repressive apparatus, but was unable to implement the centralized dictatorship of the communist states from within. However, it successfully managed to overcome the big or moderate threats, mainly through insidious political assassinations- JFK, Malcolm X, M.L. King, R. Kennedy, the destruction of the Black Panthers. Nowadays one of the Evil Empires is gone. The other one remained to reign supreme. And in the last two decades we can clearly see how the “winner” is learning from the “looser”. During the Cold War the US was shy on exercising total repression from within. The existence of enough bread and entertainment for the majority was making this unnecessary. But the realities of capitalism’s current stage are substantially different. Reganomics and Thatcherism aggrandized the power of Big Business to a degree comparable only to the hyper centralized control of the communist party. The end result of the corporate greed: unprecedented gap between rich and poor, not only in the periphery, but also in the core of the Capitalist Empire; imminent ecological catastrophe with grave demographic and political consequences. Complacency can not be guaranteed anymore. Bread is becoming scarce, the opposition, coming through the internet, counterbalances the moronic effect of corporate entertainment. Black sheep will increase in the herd. That is why the new rule of the Capitalist Empire will be a type of corporate totalitarianism, not much different from the one of the communist party. And we are already experiencing its early stages. Just look at the slogans in the subways: ”If you see something say something”, reminds me of the good, old days of Stalinism. Let me conclude with a quote from one of the most perspicacious thinkers of the last century: "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever." George Orwell

* reply

Fri, 02/15/2008 - 11:08am — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

Chris and Red Girl,

It would be presumptuous for me to suggest that you don't have the right to live under socialist or communist domination. I am however confused by the statement referring to "choose the communist way of life". I have failed to find any historical facts to indicate a free country has ever elected to transform it's government to the communist model.
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However, the history books are filled with documented facts of countries being invaded and millions of dead bodies left in the wake and dissenters of the communist rulers being rounded up and executed or sent to re-education camps and then being forced to live under the iron fist and oppression of government bureaucrats.
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Another historical fact that seems to have eluded you is the history of socialized medicine. Socialized medicine has a historical record of creating long waiting list for individuals who require immediate medical care. Canadians who need heart by-pass surgery and other urgent needs are often forced to come to the U.S, for emergency surgery because the waiting list in Canada is often six months or longer. European socialized medicine is dictating the access to treatment based on whether the individual is conducting their lives based on the government dictated life style. What is compassionate about leaving an individual to die because the government bureaucrats can't supply the needed medical resources to meet the public's needs? What is compassionate about a system that creates the incentive for the most talented and skilled to leave a profession because of strangling government regulations, red tape, and inadequate compensation for their services?
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Where has communism ever offered justice or personal freedom? Please supply the facts to back up your assertion. The equality you speak of is achieved by lowering the standard of living for everyone to the lowest levels of poverty. That is the only way that equality can be achieved. Is that social fairness? Is it fair to demand those who may have the desire, drive, and ambition to better their lives, to accept the fact that they are destined to live in squalor and poverty just so they are equal to their fiends and neighbors who lack such ambition?
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Socialism and communism fail on the simple fact that it destroys personal initiative; the desire to do better. With no incentive to rise above the mediocre, factory workers lose pride in what they are producing; Doctors lose interest in quality care; Investors have no incentive to invest their capital in failing and corrupt enterprises; Government bureaucrats have no incentive to modernize the government owned means of production; Farmers have no incentive to raise larger or better crops; Scientists and inventors have no incentive to invent or innovate. There is no reason for anyone trapped in the socialist or communist model to rise above their neighbors. Their efforts do not help them rise above the government imposed poverty level where they are forced to reside.
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You both have the right to your opinion, but you do not have the right to fabricate the facts. Anyone with an IQ greater than Bulgarian bed bug can search these facts for themselves.
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For people who lack the suffistication and self-determination that free systems allow, the socialist and communist system is probably a good fit for them. Many people today require and demand that someone else make their decisions for them and they depend solely on a government bureaucrat to determine what is best for them. Many intelligent people today are demanding that government bureaucrats take over their decision making and determine what is best for them.
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You both have sung the praises of communism in earlier posts, are you attempting to assault the intelligence of free-thinkers now by trying to blur the distinction? If that is the system that fits your needs, then I would be the last to attempt to deprive you of your caretakers. However, it is my business when you attempt to impose your involuntary servitude and government imposed slavery on me and the free world.

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Thu, 02/14/2008 - 10:27pm — Anonymous (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

Corporations + Government = Facism

* reply

Thu, 02/14/2008 - 4:45pm — Chris (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

to F.U. Too

I come to you with the following advice:

either

1. Educate yourself OR

2. stick your simple mind up you A.. and shut up

Radical leftist like myself have a good reason to be rebelious and it is none of your business what we say or do. Capitalism has proved its failure as early as the Industrial-Revolution. The Communist movement developed to bring justice and personal freedom in the world. With Communism gone, the solidarity, equality and social fairness will soon follow.

Never thought of it this way,, have you

* reply

Thu, 02/14/2008 - 4:17pm — Bulgarian Girl Red (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

Note to F.U Too

Your simplistic and shallow way of thinking classifies all people with a leftist point of view as a Communist or a Socialist. I am a girl from Bulgaria, speak very little English and never lived in The States. Considering this fact, I think that I know a lot about your country. I bet that you could not name me one fact of Bulgaria.

There is a obvious contrast between Communism and "American liberalism" and you seem to confuse the two. Then you have the nerve to speak about Socialism. No intelligent person could ever take you and your underdeveloped emotions seriously.

When you want to participate in an arguement I strongly advize you to increase your suffistication by reading objective books on Communism. Then perhaps your life will take a new meaning. Atleast you can form your opinion into a respectable arguement.

I wish you Goodluck ,,, you'll need it.

* reply

Thu, 02/14/2008 - 3:02pm — Knave Kismet (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

This one is really hard to call from where I stand. The InfraGard members who defend it are obviously in a position to relate the truth; do they? If they have sound reasonable intent, so mote it be. If not, they certainly have motive to disclose falsities. After seeing what American corporations have done to the environment, the constitution, workers abroad (have you heard that Walmart chains people to their work stations when manufacturing in other countries? I can't confirm that either!), and, odd as it may sound, to themselves--e.g. fellow workers, stockholders, and the corporate entity as a whole (think Enron)--I can only say I would not be the least bit surprised if they are spying on customers and handing the information over to the F.B.I. or, worse yet, embracing a shoot to kill policy in martial law. If the latter would occur I imagine it to be rife catastrophic hate crimes against fellow Americans. Certainly the informant may be aberrant in truth. Hasn't the author alluded to that by quoting Catherine Milhoan? Even still, possibility alone dictates the need to watch this story with an open mind. Unfortunately, the strongest argument I, or most any other average joe web-news junky, can make is 'I Don't know'.

* reply

Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:13am — Charles Frohman (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

In the middle of my blog, http://www.commoninterest.info/2008/02/11/is-emergency-govt-still-in-place/, I link to this story. So, if you want to make more folks aware of this insidious development, please click on the link and leave "a comment".

I do a lot of work in Washington, DC, with both progressives and libertarians, to restore our Rights. Please click on my link above and help the cause.

Blessings.

* reply

Thu, 02/14/2008 - 10:48am — Goldstein (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

It is all a result of the neo-liberal ideology assault. First you make conscious individuals into an amorphous mass, trained to regard greed and hyper-individualism as the biggest virtues. Then you go about implementing your 1984 plan. Sooner or later history will prove that Reaganism was as bad as Hitlerism and Stalinism, if there are still historians left to acknowledge it.

* reply

Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:15pm — F.U. Too (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

Matthew,

The fear mongering and hysterics provoked by this article provides a peek into the soul of the radical left-wing, hate-America crowd.

I would suggest to you that many Americans will take action if terrorist should attempt to inflict harm on this nation again. We don't depend on the corp types to tell us when we are in harms way.

What is the point of the story? Are you and your fellow communist sympathizers planning on inflicting damage to this country? What are you afraid of? I would suggest to you that there are many self-proclaimed communist and socialist, on this site, who openly advocate mayhem, destruction, and the elimination freedom itself, that are far more dangerous to this nation than those in the corp. world.

You have a lot of nerve deriding others who you accuse of stifling rights, while at the same time you censor, delete, and exclude posts of those who you can not deal with on an intellectual and rational basis. You are the Poster Boy for hypocrisy and shallow thinking.

Please post your guidelines for accepting posts. Many are getting tired of just reading the tired and worn out posts that offer no intellectual stimulus. You had an interesting site before you exiled those posters who offered an intellectual challenge to you and your intellectually challenged party-line posters.

People on other sites are laughing at you. It seems pretty hypocritical and shallow to advocate free speach and liberty while employing censorship and exclusion while attacking others who you perceive to be doing the same thing.

* reply

Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:12pm — Debbie (not verified)
Re: Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business

It seems that people in the business sector are being offered certain benefits for spying on their employees.What is the definition of terroists that the F.B.I. are currently giving?People of Muslim religon have been arrested, harrassed and deported
and some have been sent to rendition camps were they are tortured for not committing any type of crime or terrorism.This has been documented and is obscene, unjust and unconstitutional and should not be allowed under any conditions.The F.BI. did not seem to have a problem with this, just like the State department doesn't seem to have a problem with Blackwater.People who express their dissent about the wars, and the criminal acts of the current administration could also be labeled terrorists.What about people who learn of something illegal or unethical being done by their company and report it?What about blacklists?Doesn't this system that they have put in place make it convenient for something like this?It may seem to benefit people in a benign way for techo geeks but this type of system isn't something benign for peoples civil rights.Corporations do not have a history of going by the laws.The documentary The Corporation shows this clearly.